An interview with Karen M. Gibler
Article Type: Talking heads From: Journal of Corporate Real Estate, Volume 12, Issue 1
Interview by Debbie Hepton
Dr Karen M. Gibler teaches graduate and undergraduate courses in real estate principles, investment analysis, corporate real estate management, and market analysis at Georgia State University where she is an associate professor of real estate. She previously also taught courses in real estate economics and consumer behaviour at Mercer University and University of the Pacific. In addition, Dr Gibler has conducted industry workshops on corporate real estate management in Asia and Europe and served as a visiting professor at Helsinki University of Technology.
An active member of the American Real Estate Society, Dr Gibler is currently the President of the International Real Estate Society (IRES). She has published in such journals as Real Estate Economics, Journal of Real Estate Research, Journal of Property Investment and Finance, International Real Estate Review, Journal of Real Estate Literature and Corporate Real Estate Leader. Her recognitions include a Certified Financial Planner Board of Standards Article Award for best paper in Financial Services Review,a Homer Hoyt Advanced Studies Institute Manuscript Prize for the best paper in Journal of Real Estate Research, and a NIC ARES Annual Meeting best paper on Seniors Housing Award. Dr Gibler is a past editor of Journal of Corporate Real Estate (JCRE) and currently serves on the editorial board of several journals, including Journal of Real Estate Researchand the Malaysian Journal of Real Estate. She has recently joined the RERI Advisory Board.
Dr Gibler obtained her PhD in Real Estate from Georgia State University. Before joining academia, she worked in city planning both as a municipal government employee and as a private consultant.
1. You are President of the IRES. Can you tell us about this federation and its purpose?
IRES is a global umbrella organization for several research organizations(the American, Latin American, European, African, Asian, Pacific Rim, and Middle East North African Real Estate Societies). IRES was formed more than a decade a ago to encourage international real estate research and education, exchange, and cooperation. We are pleased that the organization of regional societies is now complete with the charter of MENARES in June 2009. Our activities have included organizing donations of books and journals for African university libraries,publicizing the Fulbright Specialist Program (FSP) to send American professors to developing universities to help them with their real estate education programs, and bringing students and professors from emerging economies to meetings in the USA and Europe to network and expand their skills.
2. You mentioned that the organization of regional societies is now complete with the charter of MENARES. Can you tell us about this charter?
This is an area that we are very excited about. There are a limited number of real estate educational programs in the Middle East and North Africa, and yet that part of the world is contributing so much to the real estate industry with developments in Dubai and Abu Dhabi, for example. They have been very important in the commercial real estate scene in recent years, but there has not been that much research and education in that region.
We are excited that the government in the United Arab Emirates has agreed to provide administrative support, an office and staff assistance to get this society established. That is always the hard part; getting a new society established with a core of dedicated people with enough resources to spread the word in the region.
So, we finally found a group in Dubai, whose government is going to sponsor the setting up o this organization through the Dubai Real Estate Regulatory Agency, but with a board of directors representing Jordon, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. We are hoping to see a lot more research carried out in cooperation with both private developers and governments throughout the Middle East. We also want to encourage more people from outside the region to visit and learn more about that area, because many of us from other parts of the world have never traveled to the Middle East or North Africa. We are hoping that this will encourage more exchanges of faculty and researchers into that area.
3. What does your day-to-day role as President of IRES entail?
It has been a lot more than I expected. Since this is a professional, but voluntary organization we are dealing with people donating their time and resources toward furthering global education and research.
My day-to-day duties involve coordinating administrative problems around the world – such as collecting the dues from all the different regions in different currencies, which is a challenge in itself, and I help the executive director decide how the money should be spent. Because our monies go toward supporting members from the developing societies to attend meetings in other regions to learn about what they can do in their own regions, there are always more qualified applicants than we have money to support.
I have also been putting a lot of effort into promoting, providing information, and increasing communication among the members of the societies to let them know about opportunities in other parts of the world. One thing that we have been working on is a FSP that will fund American researchers to travel to other countries around the world and spend time training faculty, teaching classes, and running workshops, etc. Very few people are familiar with this as it is a small program – at first only one or two people in real estate in the USA had qualified for the program. We now have about 10-15 people this year that are listed as qualified for the program. We are now working with people on the host side to tell them about the program, how to apply and get the funding to have researchers come and help them. This will help, particularly in Africa and parts of Asia, as universities bring in an expert for a short period of time to help them setup an educational program, develop some curriculum and train some professors. Again, that takes up a lot more time than I had expected, due to the challenges of global communication, with the different time zones and dealing in areas – especially in Africa – where the internet is not reliable.
I have also been working on a strategic plan for the organization. Now that we are complete, having established that Middle East North Africa society, which took quite a bit of work last year, coordinating it and explaining what they had to do, and shepherding them through the administrative procedures and meeting with them, etc. it is time for us to revisit our strategy and goals for the next ten years. We have reached that milestone!
4. How do societies such as IRES and ERES (The European Real Estate Society) help to promote the development of research and education in real estate?
Each society holds research conferences at which members can exchange ideas. Several of the societies publish peer reviewed journals, sharing the best of theoretical and applied research in real estate with colleagues around the world. We sponsor prizes for best papers and work with publishers like Emerald to produce special issues of journals focusing on timely topics. An important investment we make is in conference travel assistance to PhD students so we can encourage the next generation of university faculty and researchers.
5. In a past article, you stated that “greater knowledge of real estate consumers and their behavior will lead to better understanding and prediction of decision-makers’ actions in the real estate market.” In what ways can this knowledge benefit those with an interest in corporate real estate?
An example is that I am currently involved with an international research project that is examining the workplace preferences of office workers and the criteria that corporate real estate managers use to choose office space. Knowing what the workers value and how they use their workspace helps corporate real estate managers select space that will enhance productivity. A better understanding of the shifting priorities of office tenants will help landlords and developers to design new structures and renovate existing buildings to be competitive in the changing marketplace.
6. You mentioned that you are currently involved with an international research project examining the workplace preferences of office workers and the criteria that corporate real estate managers use to choose office space. Could you elaborate on this? Have there been any findings so far that have surprised you?
This is a project I’m helping with that is based at Helsinki University of Technology. They have a real estate research group and a facility research group that are very interested in corporate real estate management with whom I have worked before. TEKES support for research at the universities in Finland requires that the research team have international collaboration. They received funding, with me as a partner as well as with other people from the UK and The Netherlands, to carry out research on workplace preferences in the context of two things; changing demographics and changing technology, and what that means for the workplace of the future.
How can companies in Europe accommodate office workers that are both aging and shrinking in number? They can use technology to work from home, or in other locations besides the traditional office. How is that changing the workplace that employers want and should provide to their employees?
The project entails a series of surveys that companies in Finland – so far – have volunteered to participate in. The team has carried out surveys of the corporate real estate managers and new employees in several companies across Finland, asking on both sides; what is important to them in a building going forward? What do they really want to see, to make their workplace productive and to make them content/satisfied that they would like to continue to work there? Since if the workforce gets smaller, it is going to get more competitive to attract and retain the best workers.
We are looking at some of the traditional elements such as design, location and access, but also current issues about technology and work style. For example, a green building – is that something that would be important to employees in the future? Is having flexible workspace important? What type of technology would be attractive to the worker? We are comparing what the workers say they want and what the corporate real estate managers are looking for, to see if there is a good understanding at this point. There is so much discussion going on about what a workplace of the future is going to look like and how to attract competitive young workers, we are trying to see if the managers that make the actual real estate decisions understand what the workers want and if there is a congruence, if there is agreement on both sides.
Then we are going to look at – especially in Finland – whether the stock of office space provides what the workers are going to need in the future, or if it is outdated and isn’t going to work. I’ve just met up with staff at CoreNet Global and they have agreed to replicate the survey here in the USA. We are going to use the same questions and designs with employers and employees in the USA, and do some cross cultural comparisons. The intention is also to take the study to the UK and The Netherlands.
7. In your opinion, what are the most serious concerns facing corporate real estate managers today and why?
Of course, the serious concerns of the firm are also the major concerns of corporate real estate managers. During the economic downturn, firms have been looking for ways to shed costs. Since the cost of real estate is second only to personnel for many firms, corporate real estate managers have been under pressure to help their firms weather the economic crisis. It has been challenging to maintain a long-term perspective about what is the best real estate strategy while satisfying short-term demands for cost cutting.
8. How can corporate real estate managers help their firms to weather the economic crisis?
One of the things that corporate real estate managers can do is try to remain calm. In some industries right now there really is a feeling of panic. There is a lot of emotion in today’s economy (and for good reason) with companies having to make really difficult decisions about whether to layoff employees and how to survive the downturn.
Corporate real estate managers have the opportunity to provide scientific analysis for their companies to help them make strategic real estate decisions during the economic downturn. There is a tendency to say “let’s dump space as quickly as we can to reduce cost,” but disposal of space always costs something too – whether it is a brokerage commission to sell a property, or a leasing commission, or if you are trying to sub-lease in today’s market there is usually a loss on the rent.
What corporate real estate managers can help the company do is evaluate the true cost of the current real estate that they occupy and evaluate the alternatives available to the company, so they don’t make what looks like a good decision in the short run that really ends up costing the company more in the long run. They can also help them to think strategically. That if they do need to reduce the workforce and reduce the space where they house employees that maybe the best decision for the company is to move some employees around– consolidate locations to make sure that the real estate decision is the best one for the company, and is not one that is just made ad hoc based on where employees happen to be located.
For some companies this is a great opportunity what with very low-rental rates and great incentives out in the marketplace. For some it is the right time to consider moving into a different space or, again, consolidating locations and taking advantage of some of the market conditions to purchase space as a long-term investment.
9. How can CRE research at universities help executives in the workplace to tackle such concerns?
Many corporate real estate management researchers are interested in the decision-making process and how to ensure real estate adds maximum value to the firm. Because of our location outside the firm and its service providers, we have an objective and dispassionate view. We can examine case studies of how firms have acted under various economic conditions, develop models, and forecast how different decisions are likely to impact a firm’s performance, even in difficult times like these. Unbiased research can provide the foundation corporate real estate executives need to make decisions and explain those recommendations to the C-suite.
10. What do you see for the future of corporate real estate education?
Currently very few universities offer any formal education programs in corporate real estate management. Instead, most real estate business programs focus on investments and finance. While these are important components real estate curriculum, they do not provide the broad multidisciplinary background a corporate real estate executive needs. Many people in the industry have instead relied on professional education to fill in the gaps. There is tremendous potential for corporate real estate management to be developed as part of the general business curriculum in our universities. We would not consider conferring an MBA degree on someone who has not taken a class in marketing yet most MBAs receive no exposure to real estate while in school. Getting our business schools to recognize the importance of the role of real estate in the firm depends upon the participation of corporate real estate executives. Business schools understand that they must produce graduates with the knowledge and skills that firms want to hire. If corporate real estate executives become more active with universities (guest speakers, advisory boards, career days, and case competitions), the schools will respond by incorporating more corporate real estate education into the curriculum.
11. What three key pieces of advice would you give to a young professional entering the world of corporate real estate?
I was at a professional meeting recently at which top corporate real estate executives were saying they would have a difficult time encouraging new college graduates to join their real estate staff because they could not offer them a clear career path through the organization. Outsourcing has reduced the ranks of middle managers at many firms, leaving them with only entry level and executive level real estate employees. This says that young professionals must develop their own career plan and not rely on their employer to steer them through their professional life. They should plan a route that might include multiple employers during their career, both corporate real estate end-users and service-providers. I think the successful corporate real estate manager of the future will need strong finance, human resources, and strategic management skills along with broad real estate understanding. So, I would encourage them to fill in any gaps in their education and look for positions that allow them to develop a comprehensive portfolio of skills. I would also encourage them to look beyond their local community for opportunities throughout the world. Working for a multinational company or in another country is an education of itself and will provide a broader range of opportunities in the future.
12. We always hear that the important thing about real estate is “location, location, location.” Does not this imply that local real estate knowledge is key? How does international research and education fit within this paradigm?
While, there certainly are substantial differences among countries, the fundamentals of market analysis and investment decision making are universal. I am speaking on an education panel at the Latin American Real Estate Society meeting in Brazil in October along with a colleague from South Africa. He has determined that the real estate industry and educators in emerging economies have more in common than they realize. He wants to develop educational materials and programs that can serve as the foundation for an educational program in any country with tailoring to include local laws and customs. I think it is a very exciting and economical way to help develop the professionalism of the real estate industry in these countries.
13. Why is not more corporate real estate research being done at universities?
Just as real estate educational programs emphasize investments and finance,so do research agendas. University researchers look for interesting topics for which they can obtain data to conduct research and the results of which will be published. Corporate real estate professionals can encourage research on relevant topics in several ways. By participating in university roundtables,advisory boards, and other intersections between the business and academic communities, corporate real estate professionals can share their concerns and interests. Researchers always need data to test their models and that data comes from industry, so participation in surveys and confidential sharing of company decisions and performance data will attract more researchers to this area. Publication outlets such as JCRE already provide an avenue for sharing the results.
14. What do you see for the future of corporate real estate research?
I would like to see two developments in corporate real estate research. First, I hope that the multidisciplinary approach to studying corporate real estate continues and expands. The field has room for such diverse topics as worker performance related to the workplace, comparative financial structuring,executive decision making, and spatial impacts of corporate real estate decisions. However, for academic research to provide the practical results that corporate real estate professionals can use, we need to improve and increase cooperation between professionals and researchers.
15. What can be done to highlight to corporate real estate professionals, the benefits that their cooperation with researchers can bring to their industry? How can we increase their participation in university roundtables, advisory boards, for example?
Corporate real estate managers have long complained of their lack of access to the C-suite – to the top executives – and for years there have been discussions about how real estate: managers can make themselves more visible and more valuable inside the corporation.
One way of gaining this visibility and respect inside the firm is for corporate real estate managers to be able to provide sound business arguments for the importance of corporate real estate. If corporate real estate managers can demonstrate, through research, that decisions they make substantially add value to the firm, or, on the other hand, decrease the value of the firm, then they can get the top executives’ attention. They can get more involved with the strategic planning and process, but oftentimes they need to have evidence to show the executives that these decisions are important, to demonstrate the critical value of these decisions. If there is not enough research to support the position then why should executives believe that what they are told is important.
If corporate real estate managers can cooperate more with researchers and academics in providing data and access, and communicating topics of interest that would be helpful to them and their industry, then it’s more likely that we can provide a sound foundation and evidence they can use to argue their case inside their firms.
