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Purpose

Conceptual discussion of central viewpoints of Heinz von Foerster including parallels to the thinking of Gregory Bateson. Application to systems theory and social problems.

Design/methodology/approach

Analysis and discussion of selected publications of both authors.

Findings

Coining the term of “systemics” instead of “second‐order cybernetics”, limits of systemic thinking, flaws in ignoring these limits for example, in the systems theory of Niklas Luhmann.

Originality/value

Definition of “systemic”, parallels between Foerster and Bateson.

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